In this episode of the Client Generation Podcast I had the pleasure of interviewing coach Kyle Draper on why social media is crucial in real estate. Kyle’s mission in life is help people and leave them better than he found them. He previously worked as a Youth Pastor in Plano, TX and transitioned into the marketing world. Years ago he realized that Realtors aren’t great at social media so for the last five years he has had the honor to teach them and equip them to leverage social media for their business.
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What’s up everybody, Grant wise here. Welcome to the Client Generation Podcast. I’m excited today to be joined by the one and only Mr. Kyle Draper. We’re going to have an epic conversation, and I’m sure you’re going to take a ton of value away from it. So Kyle, thanks for joining me on the show. -Grant
Yeah, Grant. I’m pumped to be here, man. -Kyle
That’s awesome. Well, let’s dive in. Man. Tell us your story. Who are you? And how did you get to where you are today? -Grant
Bro, it’s it’s it’s a wildly boring story that I will share in a very short amount of time. Man, long story short, I was a pastor for almost ten years, in my 20s, left the church ministry, and jumped into entrepreneurship, not a clue what I was doing. We started a roofing company, me and my dad and my brother. And I was overall of sales and marketing, which was really stupid for a guy that had never done sales and never done marketing. And, and so man, I just cut my teeth at all of that stuff. I started learning social media. And during that time, I started connecting with realtors because I’ve decided that man realtors, they’re kind of like the gatekeeper to every roof. And so I just started loving realtors, well through that. I got out of roofing three years later started a company building websites for real estate agents. And that was when I realized, man, realtors, are terrible at social media. They’re terrible at it. And so for me, man, because I grew up preaching all the time, I was a good communicator. And so I literally, I started reading books, watching videos, listening to podcasts, learning how to do social media well, and really, at that time, Facebook. I just started teaching classes to realtors with the hopes of getting them to like me enough so that I could go on to buy a website, right? And that was my goal, and dude, fast forward. Now we’re almost three and a half years into me doing full-time speaking, coaching, teaching, equipping, on all things organic social media, video marketing. And man. That’s it, man. That’s that’s the story. I love it. -Kyle
You got thrown into sales because you were the one that could talk good, right? It sounds like. -Grant
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I could. I could talk, and so default, that was me, and I love it. -Kyle
Why are realtors so bad at social media? Why do we think that? Most of them don’t have it figured out yet? -Grant
Yeah, man, it’s Dude, it’s so simple. At every company, across the country, I guess I can’t use an absolutely like that; in most situations, companies teach agents to sell. And so they equip them with scripting and the ability to fight through quitting points and tackle the No. And then at the end of all, that they’re kind of asked to, hey, look over there. See all of that shiny objects inside of Facebook and Instagram and tiktok and YouTube that is now an extension of where you can sell. That’s the way I feel like they’re taught inside of the industry. So social media, from day one, is never looked at as an extension of a relationship. It’s looked at as an extension of sales opportunity. This is why most realtors spend all their time sharing new listings, posting their closing photos, you’re bragging about the numbers, they close that quarter, and then they wonder why they’re not getting success from this place that people everywhere are saying is, is where they should be finding success. And so I just think it’s a mindset thing. when when when we can help realtors Go man, go add value there and watch people show up to you in droves. It’s a game-changer. And so I really think it just comes down to just not being taught properly how to do it from the get-go. -Kyle
I think realtors hear that every day. add value add value, add value, add value add value. What does that mean? Like what do you mean when you say go out value? What do I do? -Grant
Yeah, man and so it that’s a great question. And I think it’s so much bigger than then we typically look at it and I think this is why realtors struggle because they hear “add value”, but they can’t get it through the filter beyond real estate. So in their minds, they get stuck in man, how do I add value inside of real estate? And what I’ve learned and what I do in my business and what I coach and teach others to do is man what can we do outside of real estate to create value in people’s lives? If you know, for example, if a realtor loves first-time homebuyers, and so we can begin to go okay, how old is the average first-time homebuyer Unknown Speaker 5:00 What does that look like? They have like 1.1 kids,they have, you know, one or two dogs, they have a cat. And so, what season of life are these people in? How can we create value for them outside of just helping them buy or sell something? Right? So so, for example, super simple, bro. Unknown Speaker 5:19 I love taking books. I have books all over for people to listen to on the podcast; you can’t see it. But like, I’ve got books behind me, I literally, I think I have eight books. Nope, I see four more. But behind my computer, I have 12 books on my desk right now that I’m just constantly thumbing through looking for inspiration from. So one of the things that I’ll do, and then I teach realtors to do is, when you’re struggling for content, just open up a book you’ve read, find a page where you underlined it or wrote something in the margin, and then jump on video and to end and become a living Cliff note of that book. And just go, guys, I just got to stop. I know, it’s Thursday afternoon, and you’re probably working. But man, this made an impact on me. And I just want to share this story real quick. Unknown Speaker 6:11 Bro, we completely underestimate how much real estate can be transacted without always having to talk about real estate. And so that’s kind of the way that I begin to steer people to see value in a unique perspective. To see it as something that has nothing to do with real estate. I think Yeah, man, oh, important. A lot of agents, social media, at least from what I see, social media is a box to check. It’s not something that people prioritize. They’re just like, Okay, well, everybody’s saying I got to do it. So, you know, I better wake up today and get my social media done. And they’re not necessarily looking at it as this incredible tool for building and nurturing relationships. -Kyle
I totally agree with you that, you know, we’re almost taught to just look at it as this transacting software. But from an industry standpoint, this is a relationship-based industry, like, if you’re not building relationships, you’re not building a business. And I, you know, I can’t tell you how much content I create, that has nothing to do with real estate, maybe it’s got to do life, it’s got to do with working out or, you know, you’ve probably seen me, you know, making these grimacing faces over here, I have a rib that is out, and I’m having a hard time breathing. And so man, you know, I was just creating content about stuff like that. -Grant
You know, it’s amazing how much that I guess like your life is the content, like your life is the value, you’re so unique. You have, you know, this unique fingerprint, this unique mindset, this unique lifestyle that you live, and most realtors don’t believe that that’s fascinating in any way, shape, or form. But when you’re building relationships with people, like those commonalities, those common interests seem to be the sticking point. And I like you let’s take this relationship further. And ultimately, it leads to a home may be being sold. Well, and Grant that’s exactly the way sales was done before the internet showed up. Right? You and I back in the 80s if we’re sitting across the table from one another, if I’m trying to sell you something in the back of my mind, I’m going how quickly can I relate to him, right? Maybe I say something about Baylor University and you’re like what no way I went to Oklahoma State and and now we’re both in the big 12. It’s random but that could be what ends up making us like each other more because we passed through the surface level and got a little bit deeper. You talk about your rib injury. Anybody that’s ever had an injury can instantly go Oh, dude, I feel you, bro. That sucks. It’s debilitating. You can’t move your arm above your head, you can’t bend over to pick anything up. And as dumb as it seems that could bring you your next batch of business because somebody related to you and comment on a post and go, dude, I broke a rib in college, and it was awful. Instantly you created relatability, and that’s, in my opinion, how we sell more but dude, even more importantly, how we get more referrals. I think realtors are too busy trying to sell the next deal instead of set up the next referral. And if we focus more on the referral piece, especially on social media, it’s a game-changer for the the attraction marketing that can take place. -Kyle
Why is it attraction marketing what makes it to where you’re attracting people to to your business or brand? -Grant
I think that there’s probably a million ways to describe it. I definitely didn’t invent it. I think it’s it’s doing anything that allows people to see something in you that they see in themselves, or see something in you that they want for them. And so when I think attraction marketing happens in words we say it happens in the clothes we wear, it happens in your grimacing, right, like the grimace that you just made. Right? Like, that’s all this is all embodied in attraction marketing. Right? And you’re showcasing to people right now like, Guys, I am in pain, but I’m here to add value, right? Like, right, you’re, telling your piece to this attraction marketing, because we could have rescheduled this, right, you could have already been on your way to the doctor, you know, hugging your pillow, that helps you not breathe in too deep or whatever that you know, but, you’re here. And so I think anything we do that gets outside of, here’s my listing, here’s, here’s me at a showing, here’s a video walkthrough of a property, when we can get deeper than that on any level. Now we’re creating attraction marketing, or what I also like to call passive branding, in the way we portray ourselves on social media. And I don’t have it right now. But we just moved into a new house. I’m in a new home office, and so my office is trashed. But I usually have a framed jersey of Ray Lewis that goes on the wall right behind me. And I can’t tell you the amount of conversations that started. And the clients it’s ended up turning into, simply because they’re like, oh, Baltimore Ravens or Yeah, Baltimore Ravens. It’s crazy. Man, you and I already had a conversation about the wood panel behind you. -Kyle
It’s the most ridiculous of things that can cause attraction to take place between two people, we just have to be willing to put it out there. This creates what feels like an oversimplification of how to use social media, it’s like well, maybe stop thinking about using it just to get business and start thinking about it to, you know, create relationships and just have interactions with people and you know, just be a human being. And that’s, that’s going to help you attract the type of people that you actually want to work with. I mean, every single person on the planet as a brand, right, every single person has something about them that isn’t attracted to other people. And so what you’re describing here in the way that you teach people to think about social media sounds so simple. -Grant
Dude, it is ridiculously simple. I told a group of realtors yesterday, if y’all would do what I say, I won’t have a job. Because what I teach is not rocket science. It’s not, but I said, Thank you for not doing what I say, so that I can continue to have an opportunity to make some money. Because it really is, man. I mean, isn’t that our goal as the expert of anything? Shouldn’t a realtor be able to break down the buying process for a potential buyer in such a simple way that they think they can do it? -Kyle
Right, even though at the end of the day, there’s some presentations that I get in with Witly where we’re talking about how it automates the ads and the presentation. I literally just did this yesterday, we were talking about building recruiting ads for brokers. And my part of the presentation, it was an hour call, was like 10 minutes. I was like, Well, I’m sorry, that’s not more complex. But that’s how it works. Everybody’s like, wait, wait, I want more Tell me more,Tell me more like you know, there’s nothing else like it’s that easy. Like we just make it easy like that. -Grant
I can tell you why I think this is; What I think is we want it to be complicated. So I can continue to have excuses for why I don’t do it. -Kyle
Yeah, bro, the moment you make ads simple. Now I have to look myself in the mirror and go What the heck, man? What? Why am I dropping the ball? But if you can keep being complicated then I can go well of course I’m not doing it, Grant’s way smarter than me. And if it’s hard for him, then now I’ve got built-in excuses.
So that’s what I fight through when I teach this every day is people that, you know, they’re like, Man, this was great, but like, what’s the best mic I should get? And I’m like, dude, you’re that’s not the next question. Looking for like, Oh, well, that’s too expensive. I guess I’ll start doing video in a year when I can afford that mic. We’re just looking for reasons not to move forward. And we got to push through that. I mean, it really doesn’t matter what you know, it matters what you do. And I couldn’t agree more. -Kyle
What do you think it is about the perspective of agents and social media?
I get the transactionally based mindset that we’re kind of being fed. But you know, especially like let’s take the market today. Everybody’s slammed because they’re working three times harder or four times harder than they normally would because of the inventory crisis. Is it a lack of priority? Is it a lack of like, of operational, you know, having the right systems and process like, what is it that’s keeping people that know what to do from moving forward? -Grant
I think we could blame any of them. And we would be right. You know, I don’t think there’s necessarily one thing. But if I had to say one thing for the sake of this is your show, and that’s what you asked me to do. It’s mindset. It is that we have convinced ourselves that we are boring, we have allowed the whole monster that is social media and the whole, like, I’m an influencer, right? Like, we’ve allowed that word to just pervert everything we do. And so I think the mindset has become, I need more followers, which is complete bull crap, because all of our clients work in a local market, where they already know enough people, right, that they don’t need necessarily to know more people to be more successful, they have to find better ways to stay in front of the people that already know, like, and trust them. And again, it’s simplified. But it gets hard. When you start doing a video right now, you and I, right, I’m forced to look at myself. And I don’t think I’m the best-looking dude on the planet. Right? I don’t, I don’t think I’m definitely not the most fit person on the planet. And so if I didn’t have confidence, I would just go look at this flat, fat blob over here, trying to do video looking like an idiot, right? That’s what I can think about myself. But I’ve trained myself to understand that my people will never see me the way I see me. Right? they’ll always see a better version of the version that I see. And when you understand that we can start showing up on a more regular basis. But man, most people just can’t get past what they look like what they sound like, the fact that their life might be boring. And it’s all of those things that are holding us back. today. -Kyle
Do you think that being courageous enough to express that vulnerability through your social platforms, can actually help you take your relationships through social media to the next level? -Grant
100%. I learned this when I was a young pastor that you should always verbalize what you’re afraid of. And so for example, what that looks like for me, is I have I have a red dot that I’ve developed on my nose. I don’t know if I’m gonna be rude off one day or what’s going on. And and so I will randomly notice it when I’m doing video. Well, it makes me insecure. And so when I noticed that grant, I literally stop and go, Can y’all see this? Oh, my gosh, how big is this dot. And, and then I’ll just jump back into my video. And it causes people to go, man, I love this one. I love Kyle because he’s just silly. He’s not afraid to say what’s on his mind. Right? And, and so I’ll use my moments of insecurity to say them out loud to then take the power away. And then I’ll just jump back into talking about what I talked about. I’ve been on stages before where I’ve made fun of myself for being nervous. Unknown Speaker 18:36 And just going guys, you have no idea how nervous I am right now. I want to throw up. And while the room is laughing, it allows me to settle in, and then confidently do what I know what I’m capable of doing. And so I say I think for those of now this isn’t right for every personality. But when you can be a little bit self deprecating, man, it’s it’s powerful, how it cuts through the noise and allows us to be successful. What I’ve thought is really interesting is that how affirming your audience is through vulnerability, and how like, you know, hateful they are when you’re doing the opposite when you’re being arrogant. When you look at people, look at people who are more arrogant and not as humble or what people you know, believe how humility should look like. There seems to be this hate are attracted. But when you’re more vulnerable, you see that you start to build these deep connections with your audience. I think the most notable example of somebody one person having it both ways here would be Rachel Hollis; she just made a huge what I think a lot of your claim is like a huge mistake on her social media. She is vulnerability as a tool to build this mass following Unknown Speaker 19:57 and she used arrogance. To not destroy it, because I think she’s pretty big time. But to really create some problems for herself where she lost a lot of fans lost a lot of followers, lost a lot of influence, because she kind of let what some people would call a true color come out and in, turn a lot of people off. And so I just think it’s fascinating, like, if you’re paying attention to what’s happening is that, you know, sometimes the more vulnerable you are not that you need to be constantly sharing your problems, but people learn from your experience. So if I was going through something, and I shared with people, how I, you know, went through it and then got through it, that’s an experience that people can learn from that’s advice, it’s wisdom. And people really love that. I mean, they just absolutely love to connect with that. Whereas using arrogance and conceitedness and those types of things can have the opposite effect. Now both of them are likely going to grow your following, which is right, fascinating. I think. Floyd Mayweather is a good example of this one Floyd got started boxing; he was pretty boy Floyd, right? And his brand wasn’t elevating at the rate that he wanted. So he dropped pretty boy, and he picked up Money Mayweather. And then he became a little bit more eccentric. So he’s like, Look, if I’m not going to be the guy that everybody wants to see when I get to be the guy that everybody wants to see lose. Yeah, man. And then he like, blew up. And so I think both of them work, everybody’s gonna have different personality, I was gonna do a different thing. But when you’re talking about agents that are stuck in insecurity, you’ve got to understand that actually, it’s the thing that makes you powerful. It’s the thing that will help you connect better, more so than, you know, anything else. -Kyle
Well, and then the underlying truth of what I hear you saying is, just be yourself. Right? -Grant
If you look, because you talked about Mayweather, if we look at like Conor McGregor, right? This arrogant, loud, obnoxious, you know what I believe he’s being himself. And in a weird way, I like it. Like, it’s weird. Like, I’m not attracted to that type of person, usually. But because it truly feels authentic, I’m kind of down for it. And I’ve paid for every fight he’s ever fought, because of the persona that he carries with him. And, and so the the cool part Grant about what we’re talking about is, if you’re truly like an arrogant prick, guess what, there’s millions of other arrogant pricks out there that will absolutely love you will love you too, right. And that’s why I like I’m not trying to preach the message of like, everyone should be meek and humble and mild, and because that’s not everybody’s personality. Right. And so the beauty for every realtor that listens to this podcast is there are enough people out there, like you. And so just go Be yourself. And watch people show up to support you and want to be a part of seeing you grow. -Kyle
Absolutely, I couldn’t agree more. I think it’s like there’s, there’s like, even used to be profiles of people that would call themselves like, Mr. a-hole. Or, you know, whatever, like, people are going to like who you are. And that’s what branding is, or attraction marketing is, is you’re attracting somebody to whatever persona it is that you’ve, you know, kind of developed for yourself. And so I agree with you, I think McGregor is being authentic. I think he really enjoys who he is, and he’s expressing that just the same thing with you know, Mayweather, like all of these people have found a point where it’s like, I’m just going to be who I want to be. And I’m not going to be who everybody else is telling me to be, and people are gonna love it or they’re gonna hate it. -Grant
What’s weird is I’ve paid to watch Connor get his mouth shut. And I’ve paid to watch him crush someone. Yeah, he’s been the same the whole time. But I found myself attracted to him in two different ways, right being for him and against him. But at the same time, he made money off of me both times when I think he learned the Mayweather lesson because Mayweather they were teaching each other stuff throughout that process. And yeah, Mayweather kind of helped him learn the same lessons like Hey, man, you know, people didn’t, people weren’t cheering me on. So I just became the person they wanted to see lose. Muhammad Ali, he learned the same lesson. He’s like, Look, I’m just gonna have to be as loud as possible, and I’m gonna back it up, and people are gonna either pay to come see me win, or they’re gonna pay to come see me lose. I’m gonna win either way. And yeah, so I think if you’re thinking about our conversations, it’s got a little abstract here, that at the heart of the messages, if you just go out there and be yourself, you’re going to attract people that are like you that like the same things that think the same things believe the same things as you because he’s like the most heinous stuff on the planet. There’s still court filings behind some of these things, so I wouldn’t get too caught up in this. My hair looks bad, like brah look, you know, there are billion people on the planet, and some of their hair looks bad today and don’t want to mess with it. Like, you can’t get so caught up.
Especially for women, like, you know, for us, like we don’t put a bunch of makeup on, like, we don’t look a whole lot different, whether we’re dressed up and ready for social or not. Right, but for a female, right? Give people like help people understand why you look the way you look. And so, for example, I was walking through our neighborhood last week, and I was sweating was breathing heavy. I was listening to a podcast, and just golden nuggets, were just dropping from the sky in my mind. And so I got home and thought, Man, I need to jump on Instagram, and just share some of these nuggets really quick. So at the beginning of the video, I told people, hey, I’m really sweaty, hey, I’m breathing heavy, I just finished working out. Right? And so now nobody’s like, well, this is gross. No, like, that’s what you’re supposed to be like after you work out. And so I think sometimes we try to, trick people into, like, we want you to think what’s happening isn’t really what’s happening. And just call it like it is, man, you have a flexible job, where you can go work out at 11am because you already were working and you’re gonna be working later. And I think this is people just get nervous and scared about like, but if I show that I’m not working all day, isn’t that bad. And so they’re gonna wait until five when they’re back dressed up again. Right? And they’re hurting themselves. When you can really hurt yourself to your point by setting false expectations. Because if your social content is constantly Work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work work. What do you think is gonna happen when you get a client? And you know, it’s 10 o’clock at night? And then when they answer the question, well, I always see on social media working, you know, and hustling and doing all this other stuff, why aren’t you? You’re setting these false expectations of what a client experienced with you. And that’s also a pretty damaging thing, because you’re setting yourself up for failure. Now your content can set the tone for how people will have an experience and interaction with you. And I think it’s something that people just don’t pay attention to. -Grant
So Dude, I definitely agree that authenticity is an overused word right now. But if you can get beyond, you know, a lot of the fluff and just get down to it, you draw yourself back to the simplicity of using social media just somewhat as a medium to create nurture relationships, as opposed to this machine that you just pulled deals out of, or whatever. I think that there’s certainly some misconceptions and how people can use it. And some ways that people can just make it easy. I think I was listening to Gary Vee talk, he invited us over to speak at his event, Agent 2021 in February of 2020, a couple years ago, and somebody in the crowd was like, what should I create my content about? I was talking about and he was like, bro, anything like anything, his content, he’s like, You fell off the curb and stubbed your toe. Say that, like, that’s content, like that’s what people want to do. They want to connect with you. They want to know what’s going on, doesn’t always have to be this like crazy, perfect, polished stuff. And, you know, COVID has given us all an opportunity to just like, take the mask off, dude, and just be yourself. because nobody’s perfect. Everybody’s life got turned upside down. And, you know, putting on this perfect persona and perception that your life is great actually was very disingenuous, because that’s not everybody’s reality. And so I think it’s never a better time to just be yourself. And, and, you know, let that be. How people create relationships. You man is a great, great show. I appreciate it so much I cut you off. -Kyle
I was just gonna say that. We could literally jump on social today and put up a post saying I didn’t know what I was supposed to say on social media today. But I know I’m supposed to say something. So here’s a post saying nothing like it would work post would get so many comments. It’s literally about nothing. It is really how simple this can be. I was interviewing Tom Ferry for our video remarketing summit last year. And he was like, do you think the people on CNN and Fox and all of that that would have as much influence if you saw them like once a week or every other month? Or you know, every six months? Like No, they have so much influence because you see them every single day and it never stops. And he’s like, it doesn’t matter what you’re putting out there. To your point, it doesn’t matter what you’re putting out there. People just need to see you every day because that’s the top of mind which is what most traditional, you know, brokerages will teach you just in a different way emails, text calls, drop by. That’s staying top of mind. This is just a much easier way to do it. And instead of doing it one to one, you’re doing it one to many. And so this is just such a powerful tool.
If you’re listening to this, you got to reach out to Kyle Draper and connect with him. He does some incredible work. He’s helping people get incredible results, you know, and I really appreciate you again for jumping on the show. What’s the best way people could connect with you if they wanted to learn more about you? -Grant
IG bro @coachKyleDraper. -Kyle